Bill Gates on the “Armchair Expert” podcast with Dax Shepard and co-host Monica Padman. (Instagram Photo via @daxshepard)

It was like two old pals getting together over beers Diet Cokes. Bill Gates was a guest on the popular podcast “Armchair Expert” this week, hosted by actor Dax Shepard.

From the start, the Microsoft co-founder was clearly relaxed. He and Shepard cracked open Diet Cokes, a beverage they both love. And at the end of the hour-plus interview, Shepard even called Gates “cute and playful” in his post-podcast recap.

At a time when he’s doing a seemingly endless amount of media related to the dire circumstances of the coronavirus pandemic, the government response and the promise of a vaccine, Gates had fun with Shepard and his fan-boy driven line of questioning.

“There’s a two-way tie, and I think you’re just marginally ahead, and I think Obama, that’s the only person we’d want to talk to as much as you,” Shepard told Gates.

“That’s high expectations,” Gates replied.

The two then launched into a discussion on everything from Gates’ Netflix documentary to the recent Michael Jordan special to Steve Jobs, what kind of boss Gates was, books, family life and more.

Listen above, and check out some of the highlights:

  • Fame: Shepard said Gates and Apple co-founder Steve Jobs invented a new genre of fame: the tech icon. How did Gates react to becoming famous? “It was certainly crazy, particularly because I was kind of nerdy and not very sociable.”
  • Deficiencies: For all of his smarts, Gates admitted that he does have “brain deficits.” “I’m certainly not that great socially,” he said. “I don’t know how to cook. I’m very embarrassed that I don’t speak any (other) languages fluently. That’s super stupid. Every once in a while when I’m learning something new it does take me a while to adapt to it and I feel like, ‘God, I’m such a fraud. This is more confusing than I expected it to be.’ “
  • Confusion is good: “I have this mindset that I’m still a student, and many people, as they become adults, leave that mindset,” Gates said. “You have to be willing to be confused. Most adults, the minute they start getting confused they’re like, ‘Oh, this isn’t for me, I’m not good at this.’ You kind of have to feel good about, ‘Wow, I just jumped in here and I am so confused.'”
  • Brad Pitt’s biggest fan? Gates said he’s currently watching “Parenthood,” the TV series Shepard starred in. But Shepard was more surprised by the fact that Gates has seen the Brad Pitt and Robert Redford film “Spy Game” 12 times. “That’s such a clever movie,” Gates said of the 2001 thriller. “Amazing.”
  • Michael Jordan: “I’m not a basketball person, but the whole way he handled himself and what he had to deal with and just how amazing he was. That was brilliantly done,” Gates said of the recent Jordan series “Last Dance.” Shepard asked whether someone can achieve what Jordan did, or Steve Jobs or Gates, and still be “a sweetheart.” “Maybe not,” Gates said. “I certainly wasn’t a sweetheart when I ran Microsoft. If you push yourself super super hard and you’re so tough on when you made a mistake, you definitely project that onto other people, particularly if you’re trying to move at full speed. … Now that I’m older I do think I’m more subtle in terms of motivating people without having to push as hard.”

  • More on Jobs: “Jobs was a genius,” Gates said of the Apple co-founder, especially in regard to when Jobs returned to run the company. “What he did at Apple during that 10-year period, it’s truly phenomenal. There’s no chance in hell it happens without him. Apple was on its way to die. … No one else could do what he did there. I couldn’t have done that.”
  • Melinda Gates: “I’m super lucky,” Gates said of his wife. “This is the most profound partnership of my life. I had a partnership with Paul Allen to found Microsoft, I had one with Steve Ballmer to turn it into an amazing company. With our Foundation, with our kids, with our marriage, I’ve got this amazing person. When she’s pushing herself too hard I’m good at helping her see the bigger picture.” Gates said his wife definitely has a “look,” particularly when they’re in a large meeting and he’s repeating himself.
  • Big tech’s hot seat: On Congress’ recent hearing with big tech CEOs, Shepard questioned criticism lobbed at Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos, for example. “Is the government crushing COVID? No! If you gave COVID to Bezos I think he’d knock this thing out in three weeks,” Shepard said. Gates defended the hearing. “If you’re as successful as I am or any of those people are, you deserve rude, unfair, tough questions. The government deserves to have shots at you. … Jeff Bezos and Amazon, they have done a phenomenal job. But that type of grilling comes with the the super successful territory. It’s fine.”
  • Diet Coke: “You’re the sole reason I keep drinking Diet Coke. I use it as my defense all the time,” Shepard told Gates, adding that he gets heat in health-conscious L.A. for still drinking the stuff. “Listen, the smartest guy in the world is drinking, I don’t know, 35 a day?” Gates reasoned that he must be acclimated to the caffeine and he sleeps quite well. “I think if I stopped drinking it I’d have a little bit of withdrawal.” Shepard asked Gates if he’d be up for him pitching the Coca Cola company for the two of them as spokespeople for the beverage, “enjoying the sh*t out of life, pounding Diet Cokes.” Gates said, “You bet. I bet they’d pay us a lot.”

They also talked about vaccines, philanthropy, clean energy, getting married and starting a family later in life, parenting, owning a real da Vinci notebook and much more. Check out the full podcast episode.

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