The receipt, as posted on Facebook. (Via Seattle Weekly)

We don’t stop to think about it, but the same people who console us, congratulate us and like our la-di-da posts wherever we’ve built our social networks can also rise up to defend us. At any moment, our friends can become our armies.

Seattle bartender Victoria Liss learned the hard way just how dangerous that can be.

The story’s so good, you’ve probably already heard it. Liss was filling in at Bimbos Cantina on Capitol Hill two weekends ago when a customer left a seriously bad tip: $0 in gratuity and the message, “P.S.: You cold (sic) stand to loose (sic) a few pounds.”

Later that night, Liss shared a photo of the bill on Facebook along with her opinion of the “yuppie scum” who left it, sparking an online hunt for the customer so frenzied it made headlines (and kept comment moderators busy) in The Stranger, the  Seattle Weekly and the blockbuster blog Jezebel.

Then, when the widely reposted photo of an “Andrew Meyer” who Liss said was the stiffer turned out to be an innocent “Andrew Meyer” in Texas, the story went wild, hitting NPR, Gawker and even the U.K.’s Daily Mail as another cautionary tale about unchecked facts and unleashed rage. By Friday, 68 ugly messages had reached the wrong Andrew Meyer, who told Capitol Hill Seattle he was considering taking legal action. “It’s a whole lot easier to say something mean when you can just type it, I guess,” Meyer told the site.

Mónica Guzmán

Liss swung from victim to oppressor over a bad ID. But even if the wrong Andrew Meyer had been the right one, there’s a lesson in her story — not just about “checking and re-checking,” but about the unexpected and almost unfair responsibilities that can come with raising a personal army online.

When I was a staff blogger at the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, my editor, Don Smith, rolled off a favorite quote every time comment trolls hurt my pride enough to make me want revenge: “Never wrestle with a pig. You both get dirty and the pig likes it.” This time, I’d think, making my way to Don’s desk with a new grievance, this time he’ll agree this jerk is worth taking on. He never did. And it never was.

Calling out jerks gets you nowhere if your site hosts umpteen armies in umpteen public culture wars every day. But if your site is Facebook, let’s face it: shared anger can be wonderfully therapeutic.

Before Liss attached a name to her post about the tip, her friends’ responses were crude but harmless — the better to help Liss laugh it off. “I curse him to a diarrhea weekend,” read one of the more publishable comments (seen in screenshot posted here). Liss seemed pleased. “You guys are the best,” she wrote.

It could have ended there, but Liss’s story was picking up steam. Everybody was hating on this guy. That had to have been thrilling. Pretty soon, her readers wanted marching orders. “What a #$%@ing piece of shit, was his name on that receipt?” one of them asked Liss. “Andrew Meyer,” she answered.

And with that, Liss’s support group became Liss’s army.

At this point, the digital trail gets fuzzy (and is getting fuzzier. In addition to deleting several Facebook posts from her Wall, Liss has changed her public Facebook name to “Vadge McMasterson”). It may have been Liss or a lieutenant. But someone first posted the picture of the Andrew Meyer that she would mistakenly say was the man she saw at Bimbos.

Facebook is a closed network with a lot of little openings. With enough oomph, things do get through. That Monday, Dan Savage sounded off on the drama. Then Liss gave an interview to The Stranger, making her potentially contained accusation undeniably public and taking her battle out into the wild, drawing skirmishes in more and more battlefields as the photo of Meyer fueled more targeted insults.

Her mistake, once revealed, brought her vendetta to a screeching halt — at least, for her. She apologized again and again. “So sorry to the wrong guy, everyone please just drop it?” she wrote that Tuesday.

The question mark is telling. By then, she must have known the battle she’d started was too big for her alone to stop. The army she’d raised was too big for her alone to see. Skirmishes had cropped up everywhere, and troops she couldn’t reach had dug up more information on Meyer and his family and launched their own attacks.

Her fight was no longer in her control. But its consequences were, and still are, her problem.

The social media explosion gives us the power not just to share, but to rage. Raise an army, though, and you raise the stakes. Its reach can be as small as your largest network or as big as the whole world. The difference is in the bloodlust — which can be as cool as you expect, or more vicious than you dreamed, taking on a life of its own as it pushes beyond the walls you assumed would hold it.

If it’s a cause that can change minds and do good, you’ll be grateful. If it’s revenge against all the bad tippers in the world, that’s a lot of pigs to wrestle. You have to wonder — is it really going to make a difference?

There’s the army you see and the army you don’t. So think before you march, General. You’ll be responsible for the actions of both.

Comments

  • Anonymous

    There may be another side to the story, as well, as the accused diner coincidently posted his side of the conflict on Yelp, and said he didn’t even write the note.

    http://www.yelp.com/user_details?userid=doVktVz8jzsX_ny6TPY2LQ

    and the two compliments he returns to those of us who complimented his review

    http://www.yelp.com/user_details_thanx?userid=_bFriTyZ6QgrZhj12oV4pA

    and

    http://www.yelp.com/user_details_thanx?userid=MK-qfzJNlq9xC6pc5Fx92Q

    • http://twitter.com/moniguzman Monica Guzman

      I saw those, @JohnVidale:disqus but wasn’t sure what to make of them. By Oct. 12, the date the Yelp review was posted, the story about the bad tipper and Liss’s account of the evening had gone viral, which throws the authenticity of the review into doubt. It could be the real Andrew Meyer, or it could be someone leaving an Easter Egg for story followers in a predictable place. In situations like this, it’s especially important to separate what you know is true from what you don’t.

      • Anonymous

        I traded some more messages on Yelp with the guy, and he seems genuine, although who really knows.

        • http://twitter.com/moniguzman Monica Guzman

          Yeah, tough to tell, @JohnVidale:disqus . But boy oh boy, now that this thing’s blown up so big, wouldn’t it be interesting to hear that side of the story…

      • Anonymous

        Some more circumstantial arguments:
        1.  Liss hasn’t contested the details of the Yelp review.
        2.  The handwriting doesn’t match, to my uneducated eye, between the signature and the note.  The signature is angular, the note’s letters are rounded.
        3.  The writer of the Yelp can spell and articulate, the note writer can’t. 

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TCAGCIAU7RXY74LI223IHF7AXQ Dave L

          50 bucks says the girlfriend was the one who wrote the nasty note.  Seems like something a “yuppie with a gold kate spade purse” would do.  As always… the real person at fault here is Kate Spade.  Lol

    • http://twitter.com/moniguzman Monica Guzman

      I saw those, @JohnVidale:disqus but wasn’t sure what to make of them. By Oct. 12, the date the Yelp review was posted, the story about the bad tipper and Liss’s account of the evening had gone viral, which throws the authenticity of the review into doubt. It could be the real Andrew Meyer, or it could be someone leaving an Easter Egg for story followers in a predictable place. In situations like this, it’s especially important to separate what you know is true from what you don’t.

  • http://twitter.com/berkun Scott Berkun

    Is there a social media equivalent to yelling fire in a movie theater? Unlike forming an army, which has some discipline, this was just a mob and mobs rarely do anything intelligent or add value to anything.  I’m just glad these sorts of misguided witchhunts are so rare given how many people now have the power to start them, intentionally or not. 

    • http://twitter.com/moniguzman Monica Guzman

      One key question about this misguided manhunt is, “Misguided how?” @twitter-30495974:disqus   In one reading, the manhunt was misguided merely because they went after the wrong guy. If they’d gone after the right one, would that have been OK? I think that though it would have been better aimed, it would have been “misguided” in what it sought to accomplish (if anything). Commenters on Liss’s post talked of the power of public shaming, of not bullying him into a corner but letting him know what he did was sleazy. OK. But it goes back to wrestling with a pig — what do you get out of it? What’s the point? Shared anger for the sake of consolation, for feeling better about something bad’s that happened to you, that’s understandable. But as soon as the name “Andrew Meyer” was dropped in, everything took a nasty turn.

      • http://twitter.com/berkun Scott Berkun

        I don’t think it’d be wise to hunt anyone down, even if they had ‘the right guy’. Just because someone is my friend doesn’t mean their telling of what happened is complete. And even if it was, having a gang of strangers confronting a jerk about how much of a jerk they are is unlikely to be fruitful for anyone.

        This story makes me think of road rage. So someone cuts you off. So what? Yes, he’s a jerk. Yes, he’s should have know better. But will chasing after them help anyone? Is it worth the collateral risks, which might involve you cutting off someone else to get to them? Its a waste of time in the false hope of some kind of revenge. Which if they’re really an asshole, is improbable. I agree – empathy with a friend is a good thing. But as soon as anyone started acting on her behalf, it’s not a surprise mistakes were made. 

        • http://twitter.com/moniguzman Monica Guzman

          “Just because someone is my friend doesn’t mean their telling of what happened is complete.” – This is so key @twitter-30495974:disqus . Yes, social media networks have shown how much we trust our friends’ opinions, interests, etc,. how much we’d rather get our news or make decisions about where to go for dinner based on their ideas rather than some invisible editor somewhere. We care about our friends. Awesome. But if we’re going to act on behalf of our friends, if we’re going to attack on behalf of our friends, especially angry friends, we’d damn well better know what we’re doing. We’d damn well better think things through.

  • http://www.about.me/tgowland Tara Gowland

    That poor dude – but what a thing to write on a bill!

    • http://twitter.com/moniguzman Monica Guzman

      No matter how you look at it, we still only have one side of the story, @Taragowland:disqus. And what a familiar story — truly. People are jerks to each other all the time, whether in familiar interactions like tipping or in ways they make up themselves. This story got hot because it had all the right ingredients: a familiar interaction everyone can relate to, a set of behavior expectations that swing awkwardly from social mandate to individual choice, a bartender with a strong network of neighboring bartenders who see the same crap, read it as a sign of unwanted neighborhood changes, and support their own, and the all important primary source material — the picture of the receipt that tipped the bucket to make the story the click and comment-generating media darling it was. Believe me: her taking that picture made all the difference.

  • http://twitter.com/c4mer0n Cameron Newland

    For the record, the waitress in question is a MASSIVE HUMAN BEING. That doesn’t mean it’s okay to belittle her, but it means that anyone calling her fat is being accurate, if we’re to look at this objectively. Almost every media report failed to show a photo of the extremely large Victoria Liss, and it certainly leaves an important piece out of the story.

    • B. Rodriguez

      Um, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s INCREDIBLY RUDE. You can state a fact without being a dick; this was not someone merely stating a fact–it was someone with an intention to hurt someone else.

      • Jonah

        Debatable Mr. Rodriguez; people used to defend those who smoked in a similar manner.  Obesity is the new smoking.

    • Ldodson

      She maybe a larger size, but that’s not a good enough reason to write the note.  I can only hope that the person who wrote it had a tad bit too much to drink and now realizes their mistake.

    • Ldodson

      She maybe a larger size, but that’s not a good enough reason to write the note.  I can only hope that the person who wrote it had a tad bit too much to drink and now realizes their mistake.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TCAGCIAU7RXY74LI223IHF7AXQ Dave L

    I share a mutual friend with Victoria Liss on Facebook and saw her facebook the day she posted it (well before going Viral).  The next day I saw it on reddit… and apparently Victoria herself had already posted it on 4chan (using her real e-mail address… which the users used to find her Facebook).   It was also Victoria herself who gave out the name and facebook information. Also, this wouldn’t have been a story had she not been friends with people at The Stranger and Seattle Weekly (in the original facebook comment thread you could see one of her friends mentioning they were going to put it in the Stranger). 

    Even before it blew up my reaction to her Facebook post was, “not cool, but what did you do to piss off the customer that badly?”.  I really wished I had been Facebook friends at that point so I could have left a comment.  Every single one of them immediately turned into minions… not a single one of her friends had the common sense to pause and say, “hey everyone calm down.  I know we all love Victoria and all and that comment was uncalled for, but before we start blindly harassing… don’t you first want to know if maybe… just maybe… the comment was provoked?”  … There was plenty of “Let’s get the yuppie scum!” but not a single person to ask, “What happened? Where did that come from?”…. Bizarre.

    I hate to say this, because there’s really no nice way to say it without sounding bigoted, but I think part of the reason this turned out the way it did is because Capitol Hill’s rather large homosexual/hipster culture invites a victim complex and an “us against the world” outlook.  You match an incredibly overweight girl, her catty gay friends and a ton of cocaine (multiple people have mentioned this)… and this is the kind of misguided jump-to-conclusions anti-hate rally you get.  Don’t take that the wrong way… I hang out in Capitol Hill myself all the time and definitely don’t have anything against that culture… but I find it hard to believe this plays out the same way if Victoria Liss was a bartender at a pub in Edmonds, WA or something.

    • http://twitter.com/questionsall Carl Setzer

      I must agree with one of your points: it’s hard to “say it” without coming across bigoted. Since the rage stay localized to Capital Hill, I’d say it’s larger.

      This does bode the question, though, about what enables these movements to incite rage and gain traction. Clearly, a number of participants had no connection to Ms. Liss, Capitol Hill, nor even Seattle.  

  • Philip Weiss

    One aspect I haven’t seen commented on much is that Sloggers have claimed that they don’t have to have as high of standards of accuracy for Slog as they do for the Stranger.  At times they complain that Publicola and The Times don’t treat Slog as real journalism.  I’m not quite sure how I feel about Victoria Liss’ responsibility for accuracy on Facebook, but I do think any blogger has such a responsibility, and that responsibility grows as their readership grows.  The ethical considerations of citizen journalism haven’t been figured out well enough.  I wouldn’t mandate legal sanctions, but I’m sad that Dan Savage’s journalism reputation won’t take a hit. While I like their politics, Slog’s reputation for accuracy continues to drop in my book and I hope that more people take note of that.

    • http://twitter.com/moniguzman Monica Guzman

      Journalists make mistakes. I sure as hell have. There’s no way to be perfect. I think you can tell a lot about the relationship between a news source and its community by the way the news source apologizes for its mistakes, and the way the community forgives them.

  • Ken

    Very thoughtful article Monica.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FLEZ3VCQ2QCT7JRA7UOJWBCIU Del B.

    Monica, you seem waaaaaaaaaaay off target with this so-called “lesson”.  Apparently it is a “lesson” you didn’t get in your schooling.

    This has exactly NOTHING to do with “bad tippers”.

    Nobody respectable who ever lived would dispute Drew Meyer’s right to have left a $0.00 tip for poor service.

    However, and apparently this is the “lesson” you and others of your ilk need to understand:

    There is no excuse anywhere as to why anyone should be made to receive such an offensive written statement delivered point-blank at her workplace!!!

    If you cannot agree with that simple 2011 reality, then you yourself have no business being in a workplace of any kind!

    Victoria Liss’s character has exactly nothing to do with that underlying reality.  This so-called “army” now represents all servers everywhere as they go after the correct Drew Meyer. 

    The experiences of Texan Drew Meyer were only mildly indicative of what awaits the authentic Drew Meyer.

    Now please use your media resources suitably and hunt this guy down and drag him out in front of society for his moment in the sun.  And don’t lose track of the fact that it was the actions of the original Drew Meyer which were the source cause of the Texan Andrew Meyer being in the line of fire.

    Had the original Drew Meyer not been stupid enough to leave such a statement on a document to which he could be traced, then the Texan Andrew Meyer would remain off the radar.

    And y’know what?  It may well have been Drew’s girlfriend who wrote the offensive note… but that doesn’t matter either, as this was a document traceable to him, and for which he was responsible.  So when society drags him into the limelight she’ll be made to suffer their wrath as well.

    • Ldodson

      If we are hung and drawn in public when we say something dumb and offensive, none of us would have survived middle school.

    • Ldodson

      If we are hung and drawn in public when we say something dumb and offensive, none of us would have survived middle school.

    • http://web.me.com/seismoguy/John_Vidale/Home.html John Vidale

      Wow!  An argument exactly illustrating how Monica says not to behave!

      In a half-understood situation, in an anonymous web post, someone calls for a nuclear response to someone (Drew) who may or may not have written a rude remark that may or may not have been an continuation of an ongoing argument.

      An excellent argument against the legality of handguns.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FLEZ3VCQ2QCT7JRA7UOJWBCIU Del B.

        Great, and here we have a clown who, much like Drew Meyer, has a considerably skewed understanding of what “anonymity” really is.

        Drew Meyer will be hunted down and mercilessly, and rightfully harrassed despite what you and he perceive to be “anonymity”.

        Curiously, the only person talking “handguns” and “nuclear” arms here is you…   but of course, you would, seeing as how you think you’re “anonymous” on the internet.

        • http://web.me.com/seismoguy/John_Vidale/Home.html John Vidale

          “[I] think [I'm] anonymous”?  No, I’m not.

          I have a “skewed understanding” because I think you’re anonymous and know I’m not?  No, both are correct.

          Wow again!

        • http://web.me.com/seismoguy/John_Vidale/Home.html John Vidale

          “[I] think [I'm] anonymous”?  No, I’m not.

          I have a “skewed understanding” because I think you’re anonymous and know I’m not?  No, both are correct.

          Wow again!

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FLEZ3VCQ2QCT7JRA7UOJWBCIU Del B.

        Great, and here we have a clown who, much like Drew Meyer, has a considerably skewed understanding of what “anonymity” really is.

        Drew Meyer will be hunted down and mercilessly, and rightfully harrassed despite what you and he perceive to be “anonymity”.

        Curiously, the only person talking “handguns” and “nuclear” arms here is you…   but of course, you would, seeing as how you think you’re “anonymous” on the internet.

    • http://web.me.com/seismoguy/John_Vidale/Home.html John Vidale

      Wow!  An argument exactly illustrating how Monica says not to behave!

      In a half-understood situation, in an anonymous web post, someone calls for a nuclear response to someone (Drew) who may or may not have written a rude remark that may or may not have been an continuation of an ongoing argument.

      An excellent argument against the legality of handguns.

    • Joe the Coder

      Del, you clearly don’t understand civil society. Yeah, the guy was mean with his comment but a manhunt, public shaming, who knows what else – c’mon that’s just ridiculous.  It’s people like you that are part of the problem, not the solution.

      And, your attempt to make the original Drew responsible for the Texas Andrew’s woes is pretty much unbelievable.  No dude, the jerks that trashed the Texas guy are the ones responsible.  Who would have been charged with assault for hitting him?  Frankly, Liss get’s more responsibility for it than Drew.  Think about it.

      As to the actual note – if you want to get legalistic, the chain of custody comes into play and it could have been anyone in that chain.  Do you really want a posse forming up over this flimsy evidence?

      Finally, I often leave no tip on a credit card, preferring to lay down a cash tip.  Some establishments play funny with CC tips.  I want my server to get all the tip.  So, if some one else wrote a rude comment on my CC receipt, I could easily be painted with the same brush that Drew got.  Even though I did nothing wrong.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FLEZ3VCQ2QCT7JRA7UOJWBCIU Del B.

    Monica, you seem waaaaaaaaaaay off target with this so-called “lesson”.  Apparently it is a “lesson” you didn’t get in your schooling.

    This has exactly NOTHING to do with “bad tippers”.

    Nobody respectable who ever lived would dispute Drew Meyer’s right to have left a $0.00 tip for poor service.

    However, and apparently this is the “lesson” you and others of your ilk need to understand:

    There is no excuse anywhere as to why anyone should be made to receive such an offensive written statement delivered point-blank at her workplace!!!

    If you cannot agree with that simple 2011 reality, then you yourself have no business being in a workplace of any kind!

    Victoria Liss’s character has exactly nothing to do with that underlying reality.  This so-called “army” now represents all servers everywhere as they go after the correct Drew Meyer. 

    The experiences of Texan Drew Meyer were only mildly indicative of what awaits the authentic Drew Meyer.

    Now please use your media resources suitably and hunt this guy down and drag him out in front of society for his moment in the sun.  And don’t lose track of the fact that it was the actions of the original Drew Meyer which were the source cause of the Texan Andrew Meyer being in the line of fire.

    Had the original Drew Meyer not been stupid enough to leave such a statement on a document to which he could be traced, then the Texan Andrew Meyer would remain off the radar.

    And y’know what?  It may well have been Drew’s girlfriend who wrote the offensive note… but that doesn’t matter either, as this was a document traceable to him, and for which he was responsible.  So when society drags him into the limelight she’ll be made to suffer their wrath as well.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FLEZ3VCQ2QCT7JRA7UOJWBCIU Del B.

    My god, how dense can you people be?

    It’s like I’m having a battle of wits with (two?) unarmed (men?).

    Get it through your heads – exactly NO ONE is anonymous on the internet, no matter what your Facebook friends tell you.

    Here, John,  let me type more slowly in order so that you might fully understand:

    N-o o-n-e i-s t-r-u-l-y a-n-o-n-y-m-o-u-s o-n t-h-e i-n-t-e-r-n-e-t, n-o m-a-t-t-e-r w-h-a-t y-o-u ‘t-h-i-n-k’.  D-e-s-p-i-t-e t-h-a-t r-e-a-l-i-t-y, y-o-u c-o-n-t-i-n-u-e t-o s-u-g-g-e-s-t a-n-d i-m-p-l-y t-h-a-t P-E-O-P-L-E  (w-h-i-c-h i-s w-h-a-t I m-e-a-n-t b-y “… t-h-i-n-k y-o-u-‘r-e a-n-o-n-y-m-o-u-s o-n t-h-e i-n-t-e-r-n-e-t”) a-r-e a-n-o-n-y-m-o-u-s o-n-l-i-n-e.

    IF you should ever think yourself “anonymous” on the internet… then go back and think again.  (persons like yourself will probably get caught in an ‘endless loop’ for so doing).

    Tell us, John, was Drew one of your buddies there at the U.W. ????   Seems to me his schooling had him on a different academic path than yours.

    Now Joe,

    It seems so blatantly obvious to the rest of us, and yet you appear to be having considerable trouble with the reality that the original Drew Meyer m-a-d-e h-i-m-s-e-l-f r-e-s-p-o-n-s-i-b-l-e for Texas Andrew’s woes.  To say that I had anything to do with it is to debunk John’s belief that the internet is fully anonymous, while suggesting that I am either Victoria Liss or Drew Meyer.

    And now you’re coming up with someone having “hit” Texan Drew Meyer – (tell us just who that was, Joe, if you will).

    And just what “chain of custody” are you suggesting here… a guy who, as evidenced by his very credit card, first receives his check, and then pays his check, giving the bill to the waitress who then posted it online.  Are you trying to suggest that perhaps somebody at The Stranger wrote the note long after the thing hit the oh-so-anonymous internet?

    Joe, that you are too dense, or too stupid to yet figure out that Drew Meyer’s offense had exactly nothing to DO with his tip, assures that your position is and will always be exactly wrong on this whole topic.

    People pay for things all over town with their debit cards, at bookstores, at Safeway, at Macy’s… where there is no tip line to confuse the single, major offense for which Drew (who is or was probably John’s college buddy) is responsible:  that he or his girlfriend wrote an extremely offensive message below the signature line.  This would have been equally inappropriate whether the offense had been enacted on a receipt at Safeway, Nordstrom, or The Shanty Cafe.

    Drew Meyer’s just desserts shall be all about class action (with no suit) on behalf of all servers world-wide against one Drew Meyer.  They’re even talking about this in Taiwan, for heaven’s sake.  In this case, though, there will likely be more ‘action’ than class involved.  I’m sure Drew Meyer can blame Texas Drew, or some other third-world tangent while he continues to stall for a little more time before sooner or later being made to own up to his own blatant offense.

    Curiously, it has only been the two of you, Joe and John, who have mentioned “hitting”, “hand guns”, and even “nuclear response” during this little skirmish.  I need only take comfort in my being far, far more sane than is the average person who has vowed to hunt Drew Meyer down, to be assured that he will get all he deserves.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FLEZ3VCQ2QCT7JRA7UOJWBCIU Del B.

    My god, how dense can you people be?

    It’s like I’m having a battle of wits with (two?) unarmed (men?).

    Get it through your heads – exactly NO ONE is anonymous on the internet, no matter what your Facebook friends tell you.

    Here, John,  let me type more slowly in order so that you might fully understand:

    N-o o-n-e i-s t-r-u-l-y a-n-o-n-y-m-o-u-s o-n t-h-e i-n-t-e-r-n-e-t, n-o m-a-t-t-e-r w-h-a-t y-o-u ‘t-h-i-n-k’.  D-e-s-p-i-t-e t-h-a-t r-e-a-l-i-t-y, y-o-u c-o-n-t-i-n-u-e t-o s-u-g-g-e-s-t a-n-d i-m-p-l-y t-h-a-t P-E-O-P-L-E  (w-h-i-c-h i-s w-h-a-t I m-e-a-n-t b-y “… t-h-i-n-k y-o-u-‘r-e a-n-o-n-y-m-o-u-s o-n t-h-e i-n-t-e-r-n-e-t”) a-r-e a-n-o-n-y-m-o-u-s o-n-l-i-n-e.

    IF you should ever think yourself “anonymous” on the internet… then go back and think again.  (persons like yourself will probably get caught in an ‘endless loop’ for so doing).

    Tell us, John, was Drew one of your buddies there at the U.W. ????   Seems to me his schooling had him on a different academic path than yours.

    Now Joe,

    It seems so blatantly obvious to the rest of us, and yet you appear to be having considerable trouble with the reality that the original Drew Meyer m-a-d-e h-i-m-s-e-l-f r-e-s-p-o-n-s-i-b-l-e for Texas Andrew’s woes.  To say that I had anything to do with it is to debunk John’s belief that the internet is fully anonymous, while suggesting that I am either Victoria Liss or Drew Meyer.

    And now you’re coming up with someone having “hit” Texan Drew Meyer – (tell us just who that was, Joe, if you will).

    And just what “chain of custody” are you suggesting here… a guy who, as evidenced by his very credit card, first receives his check, and then pays his check, giving the bill to the waitress who then posted it online.  Are you trying to suggest that perhaps somebody at The Stranger wrote the note long after the thing hit the oh-so-anonymous internet?

    Joe, that you are too dense, or too stupid to yet figure out that Drew Meyer’s offense had exactly nothing to DO with his tip, assures that your position is and will always be exactly wrong on this whole topic.

    People pay for things all over town with their debit cards, at bookstores, at Safeway, at Macy’s… where there is no tip line to confuse the single, major offense for which Drew (who is or was probably John’s college buddy) is responsible:  that he or his girlfriend wrote an extremely offensive message below the signature line.  This would have been equally inappropriate whether the offense had been enacted on a receipt at Safeway, Nordstrom, or The Shanty Cafe.

    Drew Meyer’s just desserts shall be all about class action (with no suit) on behalf of all servers world-wide against one Drew Meyer.  They’re even talking about this in Taiwan, for heaven’s sake.  In this case, though, there will likely be more ‘action’ than class involved.  I’m sure Drew Meyer can blame Texas Drew, or some other third-world tangent while he continues to stall for a little more time before sooner or later being made to own up to his own blatant offense.

    Curiously, it has only been the two of you, Joe and John, who have mentioned “hitting”, “hand guns”, and even “nuclear response” during this little skirmish.  I need only take comfort in my being far, far more sane than is the average person who has vowed to hunt Drew Meyer down, to be assured that he will get all he deserves.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TCAGCIAU7RXY74LI223IHF7AXQ Dave L

      Del.. you’re out of your god damn mind.  Sorry.  I’m sitting here reading your nonsense and wondering if you are Victoria Liss herself… someone close to her… trolling people… or just SEVERELY out of touch.  It’s all but been confirmed that it was Andrew Meyer’s girlfriend who wrote the note (hence him not stepping forward to defend himself)… so rethink your feminist nuttery a bit.  This was a woman on woman crime.  Two chicks having a cat fight.  From my perspective the only mistake Andrew Meyer made was putting up with a high maintenance girlfriend and taking her to Bimbo’s in the first place.   Victoria Liss went out of her way to bring attention to the receipt, tell people the guy’s name and band together a group of her “Del B” esque zombies to mindlessly attack the first person on facebook they could find named “Andrew Meyer”.  

      Personally I think Victoria Liss is LUCKY that the real Andrew Meyer (Ive been told the yelp review is 100% accurate.  Supposedly “The Today show” contacted him and he verified his identity, but refused to comment on the record) isn’t running to The Stranger to spout his side of the story.  It’s likely he very well could seek legal action against Bimbo’s and Victoria liss for slander.  Best you shut up, Del… for your friend Victoria’s sake…  If fools like you DO manage to find him and succeed in harassing him, it’s bad for all parties involved.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FLEZ3VCQ2QCT7JRA7UOJWBCIU Del B.

        Dave, you’re a moron…     “supposedly”…  and  “(you’ve) been told”…

        Drew Meyer doesn’t have a newsworthy ‘side of the story’.  He is solely in the wrong, and the world knows it.  Furthermore, Drew Meyer has no legal case against anybody for anything (yet, at least…).

        Why don’t you get together with John Vidale up there (if you’re not already him)…  and he’ll reveal that Drew Meyer is/was one of his U.W. buddies.

        It seems that Drew Meyer forgot to realize that there are very, very few Drew or Andrew Meyer’s in this town… and those living nearest to the scene of Drew’s offense are married.

        His was a mindless offense, and it matters not to the rest of us that those offended might be similarly mindless.

        • Ldodson

          Has it occured to you that you may be damaging Victoria’s reputation?  Is it going to be more difficult for her to find work in the future if the potential employer if they find out about this firestorm?   

        • Ldodson

          Has it occured to you that you may be damaging Victoria’s reputation?  Is it going to be more difficult for her to find work in the future if the potential employer if they find out about this firestorm?   

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TCAGCIAU7RXY74LI223IHF7AXQ Dave L

          I don’t know John, Drew or Victoria personally, but I do share a mutual friend of Victoria’s on facebook and have a bunch of local friends who are following this.  From what I’ve been told, the “real andrew meyer” doesn’t actually use the last name Meyer… and it’s people like you that will prevent him from coming out with his side of the story or exposing his girlfriend.  Del, I’m not sure why all of this is hitting so close to home for you.  Dare I guesstimate the obvious… you probably could stand to loose a few pounds. 

        • http://web.me.com/seismoguy/John_Vidale/Home.html John Vidale

          I have no idea who is Dave nor Drew, and I can’t find a single statement in Del’s last post that makes enough sense to elicit a response.

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FLEZ3VCQ2QCT7JRA7UOJWBCIU Del B.

        Dave, you’re a moron…     “supposedly”…  and  “(you’ve) been told”…

        Drew Meyer doesn’t have a newsworthy ‘side of the story’.  He is solely in the wrong, and the world knows it.  Furthermore, Drew Meyer has no legal case against anybody for anything (yet, at least…).

        Why don’t you get together with John Vidale up there (if you’re not already him)…  and he’ll reveal that Drew Meyer is/was one of his U.W. buddies.

        It seems that Drew Meyer forgot to realize that there are very, very few Drew or Andrew Meyer’s in this town… and those living nearest to the scene of Drew’s offense are married.

        His was a mindless offense, and it matters not to the rest of us that those offended might be similarly mindless.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TCAGCIAU7RXY74LI223IHF7AXQ Dave L

      Del.. you’re out of your god damn mind.  Sorry.  I’m sitting here reading your nonsense and wondering if you are Victoria Liss herself… someone close to her… trolling people… or just SEVERELY out of touch.  It’s all but been confirmed that it was Andrew Meyer’s girlfriend who wrote the note (hence him not stepping forward to defend himself)… so rethink your feminist nuttery a bit.  This was a woman on woman crime.  Two chicks having a cat fight.  From my perspective the only mistake Andrew Meyer made was putting up with a high maintenance girlfriend and taking her to Bimbo’s in the first place.   Victoria Liss went out of her way to bring attention to the receipt, tell people the guy’s name and band together a group of her “Del B” esque zombies to mindlessly attack the first person on facebook they could find named “Andrew Meyer”.  

      Personally I think Victoria Liss is LUCKY that the real Andrew Meyer (Ive been told the yelp review is 100% accurate.  Supposedly “The Today show” contacted him and he verified his identity, but refused to comment on the record) isn’t running to The Stranger to spout his side of the story.  It’s likely he very well could seek legal action against Bimbo’s and Victoria liss for slander.  Best you shut up, Del… for your friend Victoria’s sake…  If fools like you DO manage to find him and succeed in harassing him, it’s bad for all parties involved.

    • Joe the Coder

      I’ll ignore your rude baiting words and just focus on the points you raise that are simply wrong. 

      You seem to misunderstand responsibility.  There isn’t a court in the country that would find the original Drew responsible for a third party’s actions against Texas Andrew be it liable or physical assault.  Unless original Drew actually said to do it.  There isn’t even a moral argument for OD’s responsibility.

      As for your ridiculous “class action” against OD.  Do you seriously believe that a court would find him guilty of anything?  He didn’t publish the comments.  He didn’t publicize the situation.  The waitress did.  Heck, Drew might actually have a liable case against her (though extremely weak).

      The chain of custody is about the possession of the receipt.  Once it passed out of his hands, anything could have been done to it. Is he responsible for everything that was done to it after he left the table?  By your assertion he is and thus if the waitress had modified the amount, he would be liable to pay for it.  That is clearly wrong.

      Why was assault mentioned?  Simple – the level of rhetoric appeared to me like something that precedes a fight. That’s how bar fights get started. 

      I’ll leave you with one of my favorite quotes, attributed to a number of people though this version comes from Samuel Clemmons – “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt”

    • Joe the Coder

      I’ll ignore your rude baiting words and just focus on the points you raise that are simply wrong. 

      You seem to misunderstand responsibility.  There isn’t a court in the country that would find the original Drew responsible for a third party’s actions against Texas Andrew be it liable or physical assault.  Unless original Drew actually said to do it.  There isn’t even a moral argument for OD’s responsibility.

      As for your ridiculous “class action” against OD.  Do you seriously believe that a court would find him guilty of anything?  He didn’t publish the comments.  He didn’t publicize the situation.  The waitress did.  Heck, Drew might actually have a liable case against her (though extremely weak).

      The chain of custody is about the possession of the receipt.  Once it passed out of his hands, anything could have been done to it. Is he responsible for everything that was done to it after he left the table?  By your assertion he is and thus if the waitress had modified the amount, he would be liable to pay for it.  That is clearly wrong.

      Why was assault mentioned?  Simple – the level of rhetoric appeared to me like something that precedes a fight. That’s how bar fights get started. 

      I’ll leave you with one of my favorite quotes, attributed to a number of people though this version comes from Samuel Clemmons – “It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt”

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7FLEZ3VCQ2QCT7JRA7UOJWBCIU Del B.

    No wonder this society is in such peril right now, if people such as those others above are the ones sitting around blaming government, and big business, for the fact that they themSELVES created the economic environment which is eating so many alive.  You people ARE the problem, and as such, can never enough of the solution to matter.  (this probably applies doubly to those on the Hill who spend their days at Westlake and their nights doing the bar scene up there) (No wonder you’ve been unable to hunt down Drew Meyer)

    “Supposedly” and “what you’ve been told” crap has no bearing on the reality that is fast approaching for Drew Meyer.

    And just where do you fools get this “court” related stuff?  Nothing about the interaction at Bimbo’s has yet, or will ever likely hit the “courts”.  For unlike with Drew Meyer himself, those who come down upon him probably won’t leave their calling cards at the scene of their offenses.

    Drew Meyer needs to man-up and come out of hiding and take the heat for what he himself solely created.

    Any of us could sit right here and in moments narrow the possibilities down to fewer than ten with upward of 99% statistical probability of including the right Drew Meyer in the group.  So if somebody who was actually on scene were to look at their online trails and find photos it would be a slam-dunk.

    LDodson:    You’re as off-base in your thinking as are the rest of these fools.  In no way could I be said to be “damaging Victoria’s reputation” merely for restating the facts and the obvious.  Once again, and as with Drew Meyer originally, it would be they themSELVES who served to create and/or damage their own reputations.

    LOL @ Fred:   “The Real Andrew Meyer doesn’t use the last name ‘Meyer’…”    Are you now suggesting that forgery is another of his many crimes?   Maybe he stole a wallet somewhere, and he went to Bimbo’s Bitchin’ Burrito Kitchen with a woman to live high and mighty off the fruits of his labor.  Maybe, when he boards an airplane, he supplies the ID of Drew Meyer so as to avoid detection and matching to the No Fly List.  Barring such a far-flung coincidence, it doesn’t matter what name his friends call him during daylight hours when all of his official documentation ties right together with his real name. 

    What you’re suggesting would be akin to saying that…   his social security number was on the credit card & receipt, and his social security number is present on official government records of him, but “he doesn’t use that social security number”.

    Heck, even the Today Show people say they were able to contact the “real” Drew Meyer, but that he didn’t want to comment.  So why can’t you people drag this clown out in front of society and let the chips (and Drew Meyer) fall where they may???

    And consider the idiots at The Stranger, where they thought it perfectly appropriate to hunt down and ‘out’ the Texas Andrew Meyer, and somehow their logic has yet to include the outing of the right Andrew Meyer.  The Stranger is the entity which deserves a lawsuit from the Texas guy – it would serve them right for not holding up their end in the hunt for the correct Drew Meyer.

    If I had Victoria Liss anywhere in my circles, it would take no more than 20 or 30 minutes to unearth all of the information one could ever want about the ‘real’ Drew Meyer.  So why can’t those of you who know her accomplish same (and do so without crossing the Texas state line)??

    Get Andrew Meyer and deliver that which is so deservedly coming his way!!!

    (and here once again, tiz  “Joe the Coder” now adding “physical assault” to the conversation)

    Um,  Thanks Joe!

    PS – Joe, the fool here is still you… what with all of this  “hitting” and “courts” and “physical assault”

    • http://web.me.com/seismoguy/John_Vidale/Home.html John Vidale

      The way I heard it, and heard it directly, Meyer didn’t even know the note was written on the receipt until days later, when the blogged photo went viral.  It is probably the truth, and it certainly can’t be proven otherwise.

      I hope you are able to deal with people more appropriately in person; your online personna is offensively obtuse.

  • http://ClaussConcept.com Jason Gerard Clauss

    Just to think, if that fat cow had been at the gym instead of slandering an innocent man, none of this would have happened.

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