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As the U.S. lurches through the COVID-19 pandemic, the public has turned repeatedly to Bill Gates to get his insights on the path forward and missed opportunities in the global health crisis. Such was the case in an interview Tuesday with the co-chair of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, as part of The Wall Street Journal CEO Council Summit.

In an interview with WSJ Editor Matt Murray, Gates was asked if the stay-at-home “lockdowns” in the early months of the pandemic were worth the economic harm they caused.

“The U.S. never did a lockdown,” Gates answered. “That’s not a very good term for what we did. China did a lockdown and China proved that if you do an effective lockdown, you can drive the disease to zero.”

Gates acknowledged that few countries would be capable of a shutdown as severe as what China implemented, but pointed to South Korea and Australia as countries who took perhaps more palatable but still aggressive, effective steps in reducing infections.

He also called out the U.S. failure to quickly quarantine and test travelers coming to the U.S. from abroad, as well as the decision to not activate the commercial sector in producing tests.

COVID-19 has killed nearly 210,000 Americans and infected 7.4 million people worldwide.

Gates said that seven months into the pandemic, we know that eating and drinking inside of bars and restaurants can be the source of infection super spreading events, while these activities provide a limited economic boost. But despite the lopsided trade off, the country is largely unwilling or unable to curb those activities.

That leaves the U.S. heavily reliant on a vaccine to bring life back to something like normal. But that, too, presents challenges given worries about vaccines.

“Vaccine hesitancy is in all countries and predates the pandemic,” Gates said.

In the interview, he pointed to lessons learned from global efforts to eradicate polio. In that case there has been misinformation about U.S.-made vaccines causing sterilization in women, Gates said. In Nigeria, for example, where citizens were fearful of the vaccine, health workers went to religious leaders to gain their trust and participation, which brought the community along.

“Here in the U.S., we should already be thinking about which voices will help reduce the hesitancy,” Gates said. He said that isn’t happening in a concerted way and that mask wearing and vaccinations have become politicized. He suggested that healthcare leaders including local doctors will need to encourage the use of vaccines when they become available.

Murray concluded the conversation with Gates’ reflections on the death of his father, Bill Gates Sr., last month at age 94. The elder Gates was a prominent attorney and civic leader in the Pacific Northwest, promoting the technology sector and the University of Washington and backing the United Way and Planned Parenthood, among other causes.

He played a crucial role throughout his son’s life and career, acting as a mentor, inspiration and partner in the creation of the Gates Foundation, one of the world’s wealthiest philanthropic organizations.

“Teaching us by example did turn out to be very effective,” Gates said. “My siblings and I try to match his example of integrity and civic engagement. I’ll never achieve my father’s level on those things, but it’s been a huge help to me.”

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