amazon sunday shippingThe U.S. Postal Service is known for working through rain, sleet and snow, but not on Sundays or holidays, right?

That is changing, quickly, through a deal with Amazon. In many parts of the country, products ordered from Amazon now arrive at your home seven days a week, year-round. As GeekWire reported last week, the rollout is expanding nationally even faster than originally expected.

The change is catching some Postal Service customers off guard, who may find it shocking that an institution of its size can evolve the way it does business. On Twitter, one person said it’s “kind of like magic,” and another person called it a #pleasantsurprise.

As postal trucks start circling U.S. neighborhoods, and customers get knocks on their front door on Sundays, people have become more aware of the service, and naturally, questions have started to arise. So we put together this FAQ to answer some of the most common questions about Amazon’s Sunday delivery service via USPS:

How come I’m seeing mail carriers on Sunday and holidays? What’s up? 

Instagram user embranigan snaps a shot of a postal truck doing its rounds on Sunday.
An Instagram user snaps a shot of a postal truck doing its rounds on Sunday.

In November 2013, announced it was working with the U.S. Postal Service to deliver packages on Sunday and holidays, starting in Los Angeles and New York, and in May, it added 15 more cities. In recent weeks, it has rolled out to even more cities, including Seattle, Portland, Northern New Jersey; San Diego; Fort Worth, Dallas and Houston in Texas; Richmond, Va.; Washington, D.C. (plus Virginia suburbs).

As for holidays, Fourth of July was probably the first time in many markets where people saw postal carriers delivering packages by foot.

Amazon and the U.S. Postal Service plan to continue to roll out Sunday delivery to a large portion of the U.S. population this year. Previously, the U.S. Postal Service only delivered Priority Mail Express orders on Sunday.

Is this a trial, or something more permanent?

It will probably last for at least five years, according to a WSJ report, which tracked down portions of the contract between to the two entities, however, either party can terminate the deal with 30-day notice.

A portion of the Amazon and USPS contract (via WSJ).
A portion of the Amazon and USPS contract (via WSJ).

Is Sunday delivery only for those who are willing to pay $99 a year for Amazon Prime?

No, Sunday delivery is available to all of Amazon’s customers. However, a Prime account holder can order an item as late as Friday and can potentially expect to receive it on Sunday. For example, I placed an order on a Friday recently, and Amazon guaranteed that one of the four items would be delivered on Sunday. To my surprise, it was delivered on Saturday, or just one day after I placed the order.

What can non-Prime customers expect?

Non-Prime members also can receive shipments on Sunday. For instance, a friend ordered an item on a Monday, and picked standard shipping. Amazon promised it would arrive three to eight days later, and it was delivered on Sunday, six days after placing the order.

amazonprimeHow much does Sunday delivery cost?

In both the scenarios explained above, Sunday delivery happened to be free, but generally, non-Prime customers pay standard shipping rates, and it’s free to Prime customers. For either customer looking for something to be shipped faster, expedited rates would apply.

Is it available for all items?

No. Amazon says vaguely that “millions” of items are eligible when available in your region. The most common items include baby supplies such as newborn apparel, books and toys.

How do I know if a package will be arriving on Sunday?

You many not necessarily know until after placing an order. That’s when Amazon provides a summary of items purchased and dates for guaranteed arrival. In my case, a infant toothbrush for $6.99 was guaranteed to arrive on July 13. Amazon did not provide special notice that it was a Sunday.

I ship my Amazon orders to my office, which is closed on Sundays. Is there anyway to opt out?

We have not been able to identify a way to opt out of Sunday delivery. We have reached out to an Amazon spokesperson for the answer, but have not heard back.

Mail truck. Photo via Chase Elliot
Mail truck. Photo via Chase Elliot

Others just feel plain bad that their postal carrier is having to work on Sundays. Should we feel guilty?

The Sunday work is performed primarily by “non-career employees,” which is lingo for part-time employees. A U.S. Postal spokesman said these employees most likely would not receive as many hours as they do if it were not for Sunday delivery. Because of this, you will often see them not in uniform.

Dozens of job openings are listed on the U.S. Postal Service’s website, calling for temporary help on Sunday. Wages are listed at roughly $15.30 an hour, so if you think creating new jobs for people is a good thing, you probably don’t have to feel guilty.

Is this the first unusual relationship that U.S. Postal Service has inked with a private business?

No. The USPS recently contracted with Staples to have some services sold in their stores. The deal received considerable backlash from workers, who claimed it was shifting jobs to low-paying, less experienced workers. The last we heard Staples was abandoning the trial.

If the USPS is considering canceling Saturday service, then why would it add Sunday?

This is a good question with a very long convoluted answer, based on calls I made to people in the postal business. The agency lost $5 billion in its most recent fiscal year ended Sept. 30, 2013. The loss was largely attributable to massive healthcare funding requirements. Meanwhile, operating revenue, excluding a $1.3 billion non-cash change, increased to $66 billion compared to $65.2 billion in the same period a year earlier, representing the agency’s first growth since 2008.

The postal service has acknowledged the arrangement with Amazon will represent only “a small percentage of total Parcel Select volume.”

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  • Jfdelman

    I like that they said it will give then more hours, in reality these part time workers already work 40-65 hours a week without Sunday.

    • ajkearney

      That is because they have not hired all the CCA’s they are allowed to under the contract. Once they do these hours will help everyone get the hours they need.

      • Jfdelman

        They have in california, CCA’s are on a hiring freeze.

        • Joose

          I’m a CCA in the San Diego area most of the CCAS have quit and we are left all that work the the remainder of us. I work over 60 hours a week. And the supervisors have us working 7 days a week for a few weeks at times,especially during the end of the year.

          • Pickel Juavez

            Welcome to what every private sector employee goes through. If you don’t like it, find a new job. Our President tells us we have plenty ever since his recovery so you are lying if you say you cannot find a better one.

          • yourmomsacca

            You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about. Don’t even begin to think you go through what I go through

          • youranidiot

            are you fucking stupid ??? You blame obama ???? How about the anti union repuglicants who’re the ones that have set this bullshit work environment up, democrats WANT you to work less than 40 !!! we’re proponents of the 36 hour work week, we’re the fair compensation party. You are so fucking indoctrinated and fooled its not even funny……

    • Danielle

      Exactly, I already work full-time plus overtime as a part time employee. What new employees? Ill be working 7 days a week and they keep eliminating routes leaving us with less people to do more work. :(

      • Pickel Juavez

        Welcome to what every private sector employee goes through. If you don’t like it, find a new job. President Obama tells us we have plenty ever since his recovery so you are lying if you say you cannot find a better one.

    • GuyinCA

      Not in my area. I used to be a sub and only worked a couple days a week for years except for the occasional vacation someone would take. Now full time starting 4 1/2 months ago.

    • DA Real Chillz

      A lot of the rural carriers only are guaranteed 1 to 3 days a week filling in for career employees off days

      • Jfdelman

        Rural carriers can’t do Sunday delivery, it would be grieved.

        • yourmomsacca

          Not sure if you consider rcas rurals or not but they definitely work Sundays.

    • 亻呆扌立

      Yes they are making 40+ hours, but contractually are not supposed to make over 36. This has made for a hostile work environment as some full time employees feel that this over-use justifies more full time jobs.

  • Judy from Jersey

    And also many of the part timers quit once they find out that they need to run as well leave tall buildings in a single bound. You think I’m kidding. I’m not

    • ajkearney

      I agree with you. Same thing we went through as a PTF but with less support. The Union needs to protect these people better somehow. Everything with the CCA’s is a work in progress. Both with the Union and Management. The CCA MOU and FAQ on the National web site changes daily. Hopefully we can keep making the job more desirable to them.

      • Pickel Juavez

        Kind of makes you realize the stupidity of paying a union what you earn through your money an labor just so they can ignore you when you call in their services

  • Retired Mailman

    If they haven’t done away with the additional 25% bonus for working on Sundays then these carriers should be happy, at least until football season.

    • joe

      no 25 % bonus for cca’a they are non career

    • CCA

      No bonus for Sundays or holidays. They work us everyday they can giving us full routes with swings. They work us 7 days a week at times especially during the holidays for a few weeks on end. We are getting destroyed.

  • JBM

    Unfortunately, the Postal “Service” of today means that many of the small acts considered part of the job, such as ringing the doorbell to (hopefully) let the customer know that a package has been left on the porch, are no longer allowed. Carriers are now instructed not to waste the time to ring the bell or knock. In a time when theft of parcels from porches is more common, it would seem that the USPS would want to ensure that customers know when they need to come and get their parcel. If deliveries are made on Sunday when people aren’t expecting them, and there’s nothing to signal that delivery, that leaves another 24 hours or more for the package to be stolen or damaged. Combine that with the new USPS practice of throwing or “bowling” packages from the curb or dropping them at a front gate (even into a puddle on a rainy day–my own experience) and the idea of Sunday delivery loses it’s “magic”.

    • JM

      The ringing the door bell is done in our office, we are told to ring bell or knock to let customer know.

    • Bill Jones

      Why would postal service care if packages are stolen? It’s like moving companies, they only pay if there is insurance and the insurance is priced so the customer pays for the losses.

      • Linda McLinda

        They would care. Why wouldn’t mailmen have pride in their work? Even movers have pride in protecting your possessions. Human nature.

  • JD

    If the USPS is considering canceling Saturday service, then why would it add Sunday? – they aren’t considering canceling package delivery on Saturday, just mail.

    • RCA

      The USPS isn’t considering cancelling Satruday service. Congress is considering making that change, because they know so much about businesses and what makes them profitable.

  • Bosco

    CCA program is a disaster purportrated by management and the union. Warm bodies for management, dues paying members for the union. You have to have overtime to keep the minions happy. Once the overtime disappears and the CCA’s are making 20-30 hrs a week(maybe) the words “going postal” will be back in our vocabulary. Not to mention all CCA’s that are being hired ARE KEPT. The only ones not making it are the ones that quit. That means more untrained lousy workers. Over time should be cut back NOT wiped out!!

    • MOONIE$$


      • Joose

        I’m a CCA out of San Diego I agree they need to hire only Sunday and holiday workers and keep CCAS that work doing regular routes just focused on that. I’m working 7 day s a week with no time off and it’s killing me. They even call me on my days off that they just managed to give me to come in, it’s ridiculous.

        • BobbieJo

          I agree wholeheartedly, they need to hire people that want to just do the Sunday/Holiday delivery to earn extra money. Just pay them however much an hour and don’t expect them to join the union. I’m sure people would line up to do that. I’m a CCA in the Seattle district and our newest CCA’s, even the ones still on probation keep coming up with excuses why they can’t work Sunday and holidays….

      • Patrick

        And this guy above is the reasoning behind, throwing packages, dropping packages in puddles,(and were wondering why service stinks) the man cant even use proper grammar. And i’m sure there is more like him in management. like so many have said above, all they want are warm bodies to fill the positions, when one quits they have no plan so they panic and hire the first person that can spell there name and read house addresses.

    • purportrated


    • ccabetterthanregulars

      More than half the regulars are lazy pos. I’m okay with doing my route and half of yours. Then you can birch at me when I mess up one letter only for me to do your route later to find dozens of mistakes and unhappy customers. If the post office was smart it would fire off those regulars that don’t work. No reason for the union when youre so easy to replace

  • $1.3 billion non-cash change

    What is a non-cash change?

    • uncrushed

      It’s probably non cash “charge”. Congress mandated that the post office pre fund 75 years of health care over a period of ten years. That’s THE major source of red ink. On the upside, anyone who hasn’t been born yet but metaphysically wishes to be able to count on retiree health care at usps, you’re golden!

  • RCA

    I’d like to know how many non-career employees you spoke to in the formation of this ‘faq’. The attitude that clearly we poor, simple CCAs and RCAs will do anything for money, we’re so grateful, massa, isn’t really well considered. Most of us work incredible work loads, very often getting called in our day off, or getting sent out to help other carriers when we finish with no prior notice that we’d be needed. As a single RCA, it’s near impossible for me to plan anything in advance, save for Sundays, which I was able to rely on as always having off. I do not get vacation days, I do not accrue sick leave, there are no benefits, and now I’m on call 7 days a week?

    • Real Carrier

      Cry me a river RCA! You have no idea of what being a real carrier is. All you do are mounted, apt, and business routes. Try walking on your feet all day swing after swing. You rural carriers kill me. It takes at least 20 years in my city to get a mounted/apt/bus route and you guys get that right from the start. You don’t need annual leave….you get it from day 1 with that gravy you get from being an RCA!

      • CCAChris

        I agree with you completely. RCA’s are doing curbside routes all day. Yet here I am as a CCA working an 825 stop walking and dismount route that they forced me on because no one else would take it. And on top of it they expect me to work sundays after doing that kind of a route? Just a freaken joke man.

      • mail carrier

        Every route is different. Every route has it’s obstacles. If we’re all delivering mail, we’re all REAL carriers, regular or associate, city or rural. Disrespect is disrespect. If your significant other, or a parent, or a child was a rural carrier, would you think less of them?

      • Kevin Guzda

        You are so ignorant its almost funny…

  • sfgiants3535

    Anybody ever think that I dont want to work on Sundays? Thanks a lot Amazon and F YOU.

  • kroyster

    I have been a CCA for a few months. I can truly say that the work is hard and strenuous. Especially in the hot weather. As a CCA I work well over 40 hours and six day a week. Adding Sunday package delivery should definitely call for new employees. I greatly appreciate the money I make and the hours, but we won’t be any good if we are overworked more, customer service will definitely suffer in the long run.

  • privateuser

    As said by a previous post, the temporary employees are already overworked in these big cities and I can’t say there aren’t plenty of complaints.

  • WeezyTheRaccoon

    I’m a CCA in the San Francisco bay area. There are 6 of us at our station, and we all work close to 50 hours a week, with only Sundays off. Today we were informed that our station will begin Sunday parcel delivery this upcoming Sunday. I’ve been unhappy at work, and this may be the final straw that gets me to quit. This is unreasonable!

  • Ellen

    anyone ever think we dont even WANT sunday deliveries????? believe me there are plenty of people that dont want delivery trucks speeding around their neighborhoods on Sunday they dont even want Saturday deliveriies…..

  • Haggy

    It seems strange that the article would ask if people should feel guilty that their letter carrier might have to work on Sunday. Do these people shop at Target or WalMart or eat at Denny’s? The world doesn’t close down on Sunday, and it’s up to any business or agency to offer people jobs for whatever days it wants. If there are more days available, they can schedule employees for whatever hours they want. If they are forcing people to work seven days a week, that’s not related to this specific issue. With any employee at any job, an employer can have unreasonable hours and shifts or reasonable ones.

  • Stephanie Tenz

    You can opt out of weekend deliveries under your settings/preferences on amazon

  • san Ramon ca

    Yes they do deliver on Sunday forcing employees to work seven days a week with no rest and creating stress for their family . My wife works as temporary employee under a contract the work conditions are the worst the any jobs can offer “even the slaves have rest” they work 10hrs a day 7 days
    A week that’s because they don’t want to pay regular employees overtime and can’t force to work 7 days a week they will call the union and one of the respond from one of them was that’s what you cca
    It ‘looks like cheap practice from usps to get more businesses
    Sweatshop usa

  • keha

    I just got a delivery on Sunday – it was nice but not necessary because I was expecting a Tuesday delivery (after the holiday). I see for $12 extra I can have Priority mail delivered on a Sunday too. So this seems to be a push from USPS as well as Amazon.

    I guess it’s a gamble the USPS has to take. As Amazon builds warehouses closer to their customers they certainly don’t want those big boxes sitting idle for 1 or 2 days a week based on the schedule of their delivery services.

    So now my packages from Amazon arrive by UPS on Monday-Friday, Fedex on Saturday and USPS on Sunday/Holidays. Amazon did a good job of spreading the deliveries around and playing the shipping companies against each other.

  • Brittany

    While USPS needs the revenue and this deal was lucrative enough to take it, all the CCA’s in my area, and the RCA’s as well, are already working full-time. My SO had 109 hours on his last paycheck and that’s before Sunday delivery. It’s still cheaper to pay them double overtime than it is to call in any career employees for overtime pay.

    What happens when these hard workers start burning out and getting hurt? How much workman’s comp is going to have to be paid before they realize, oh these guys are human too?

  • Duncan Manuel

    Ya’ll can find your local post office at and see if they offer the Amazon Sunday shipping – pretty awesome it just came to New York!

  • uspsWife

    As other have said… husband has worked 60+ hours/week over the past 5 weeks with only 2 days off. Management of these non-career (CCA) employeess is very inconsistent. We have friends that hold the same position, but work out of different stations in town and are given at least one, but usually 2 days off each week. Meanwhile, my husband is sent to cover other stations and work 7 days a week!

  • dan.c

    Amazon shipping via usps is terrible. The packages never arrive by the “guaranteed” date. Very poor decision by amazon.

  • pgh pse

    On the clerk side of this mess….we are already working 40-65 hours a week as well. 6 days. Now add Sundays at just 2, yes that’s just two, hours on a Sunday. No, don’t feel guilty that I have to get out of bed on my ONLY day off and drive half an hour to and from work too get two hours pay to make sure you get those diapers you ordered. Ooooh I just made 20 bucks. Thank you

  • Tammy

    USPS is garbage. If your not home they just leave your package there. If your in an apartment building where typically usps drops off at the main office that’s open mon-sat then usps “will leave it wherever” (EXACTLY what usps told me) needless to say 3 packages were stolen.

    • Shan

      What exactly do you expect them to do? You realize when you go to have something shipped to you there’s an option to take it back to the office if you’re not home, right?

    • ccabetterthanregulars

      Fyi Sunday delivery has to be left per Amazon’s request. It’s not the post office being lax it’s Amazon saying deliver it or we will find someone that will. All Amazon has to be 100 percent with no exceptions. Complain to Amazon not to postal workers. I’d rather leave a notice.

    • Jfdelman

      I think you mean ups, they are the knock and leave guys. USPS usually leaves a notice if its unsafe.

  • Emily

    I work for the postal service and I already have to work 6 days a week, now 7, usually 10 hours a day, so thanks but I already had more than enough hours

    • Mark D

      oh I agree, it was my first Sunday working today, I have a family and look forward to spending Sundays with them, I also work 50 to 56 hours a week already, so what they say about non career employees not doing enough hours is a load of BS.. and that goes for every CCA who worked today at my station, everyone of them on was such a downer it just isn’t good for morale, because I can guarantee that all of us who worked today will go into work tomorrow with a lot less desire to for fill the responsibility’s which we usually take great care to provide, which in turn reflects on the way the USPS delivers to its customers. Its not all about Sundays, its about the usual weekly days, and the millions of customers we deliver to everyday.. not just Amazon customers…on a Sunday…from one of many unhappy CCA’s in Southern NH.. and yes I will give my name.. Mark D…

      • daniel

        Mark D lol. I guess I’m not the only disgruntled cca in south. I’m that special someone that started with you and ended up at west :)

      • daniel

        The best part was they had me come in twice at 10 so I ultimately worked the same hours but they get to use me 7 days a week! I guess this is what true comedy is.

        • MOPerina

          My hubby is a CCA in the Chicago area. I can’t believe the idiocy of the USPS. Why can’t they rotate CCA’s to every other Sunday? It creates less burn out. It’s not only EVERY SINGLE Sunday, but all the postal holidays now too. The regulars get off on MLK day or Presidents’ Day, and the CCA’s have to deliver the dang Amazon packages. They can legal ask him to work 360 days straight. How in the world is someone supposed to work that schedule and have an actual life?

  • christopher Lucy

    Im hoping the usps will just go away.its obsolete.subzides for for buggy whip make work institutions are draging the country into a financial abyss.

  • J_May

    This isn’t good. I can wait until Monday or pay extra for Saturday. I don’t want any sort of business- or commerce-related activity showing up at my home on Sunday. I’m sad for our culture that’s even an option.

    • Coconut Monkey

      I agree and feel the same way. I don’t like Sunday deliveries or having to worry that any given package will end up spending the night outside or stolen. Give me my Sundays back! Oh, and the Sunday delivery happens not during normal mail hours, but * any time* during morning, afternoon or night time after dark!

  • Daniel P. Jones


  • MD

    Since we started working Sundays 3 weeks ago in Manchester NH, I have worked 18 days straight and averaged 62 hours a week, I feel exhausted and really not looking forward to delivering packages plus doing collections tomorrow (Sunday) it looks like Christmas day will be my next and only day off since Thanksgiving..

  • sk rasool

    i like this job

  • goodoleboyharry

    Yes, I like how the US Postal Representative said the hours were for part time non career employees also. At my location in Raleigh NC. There are no part time CCA ‘s at my station we are all full time and are working 7 days a week. We have open routes that they rotate us on. They refuse to make the older CCA’s that was converted from TE’s (that was there 5 or more years) career or permanent employees. We were promised and told several times by management they were going to make us permanent even before the CCA Position existed. We were only let down to have our pay reduced and forced to take this CCA Position. The only time we had off was Sunday and some of us cannot afford to quit until something better comes along.

  • Oyster Bay

    Heh. I’m a 19-year regular and *I’m* working Sundays, because we have no CCAs in my office…

  • BarryWorshipsAllah

    USPS needs to be shut down completely. They are bleeding taxpayers dry.

    • Jfdelman

      Are you from 40-50 years in the past? Because that was the last time USPS was supported by tax payers.

      • BarryWorshipsAllah

        Are you RETARDED? They are part of the Federal government. Congress votes on their multi-billion dollar bailouts EVERY YEAR. They lost $5.5 billion last year and have a $100 billion pension deficit. Educate yourself LIBTARD…

        • Jfdelman

          We have $5b in the bank and deferring a stupid bill isn’t a bail out, congress saw we had money stored and stole it in 2006. The only reason operations have been listed as a loss is because of the the prefunding, so we aren’t losing money.

  • AversaS

    Actually, the post office lost money because of a bill the Republicans passed back in 2008 requiring USPS to fully fund their pension program 75 years into the future within 10 years. That means for people who aren’t even born yet.

    It has nothing to do with their healthcare, which is automatically covered by the government, since they are government employees.

  • Jill Lewis

    Not knowing anyone who works at USPS, I didn’t realize it was this bad. I’ve only had a few packages delivered on Sunday, and I don’t know if it’s still a problem, but I’ll make sure I wait until the following week from now on. I don’t want to make an existing problem worse even though I was just one person with an occasional Sunday delivery. Thanks for the info and comments, everyone.

  • R

    Amazon has betrayed one of their core customer bases in forcing the use of the US Postal Service on us.

    Amazon was previously a lifeline for those of us in rural areas,

    but the US Postal Service leaves packages OUT ON TOP OF OUR RURAL MAIL BOX 1/4 mile from our house, or on the ground in torrents of rain, so most of the time, packages are either stolen or destroyed. So after all these years of depending on their service, we have no choice but to stop using them entirely. Shame on Amazon for not giving a rat’s rear about this.

  • Anthony Christopher

    Great article. You answered all of my questions as to why I got a package from USPS from Amazon on a Sunday. Bravo

    • djmcfar

      We received a package last Sunday and were flabbergasted. How is this possible ? Thank you all for this enlightening discussion which lets us non-postal workers see what is really happening. I’m hoping that this gets run better in the future, and that you get the workers rights that you deserve. No-one should be forced to work 7 days a week for anything but a very short amount of time. The issue is complex and effects people in different ways. I personally don’t want Sunday delivery. I’m completely okay without it.

  • rgsoni

    My first ever Sunday Amazon deliver never arrived last Sunday. It was a small, micro-USB phone charger. I got a text message after the supposed delivery at 7:54am (yes, a very early morning delivery). I looked in my mail box, on the porch, behind the bushes…but there was nothing. I wonder if the non-career employees don’t know the addresses and make mistakes in delivery (maybe delivered at another house). Or, maybe my delivery was picked up by a passerby or the newspaper person…or, maybe never got delivered at all. I have been shopping on the net since 1999 and this is the first time an item is lost!

  • himansu Pathak

    They never delivered it on sunday and update usps site with status ‘Business closed’ , mine is residential address in hoffman estates in IL they never turn up so far.. my experience has been this for last 3-4 times in last 1 month.

  • JFeldkamp

    So I ordered from Amazon Wednesday and was told it would be delivered the following Tuesday. It didn’t ship till yesterday (Saturday) and was told I would arrive today (Sunday). I noticed the USPS tracking code and didn’t know they delivered packages on Sundays. I just got an update saying my package is available for pick up 3 cities away and their site says they are closed. The tracking showed the package was out for delivery from my local post office that is 3 blocks away so what gives?

  • Scott Greene

    It amuses me listening to so many people complain about how many hours they work. Your not the only place that works a lot. Factories work overtime, restaurant management, ect… I manage a wendys and have worked 90+ hours in a single week. I doesn’t happen open but be glad you have a job. If you don’t like the one you do have then find a new one instead of crying about it. All people anymore want to do i bitch about what is wrong. Never hear the good about anything.

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